Episode 1

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Published on:

15th Oct 2024

A Father's Worst Nightmare: Anchored Faith

In this powerful episode of Story Sessions with Loveshaped Life, host Bob sits down with Tim Hawkins to explore a journey of faith, transformation, and unimaginable loss. Tim shares his compelling life story, from growing up in Baltimore's contrasting East and West sides to joining the military and navigating complex family dynamics. Through it all, we witness Tim's evolving relationship with God and how his understanding of faith dramatically shifts over time.

The heart of the episode revolves around Tim's experience going deeper with God. Which profoundly changed his perspective of Gods character. As a result Tim candidly discusses how he transitioned from being a strict disciplinarian to fostering loving relationships with his children, mirroring the relational nature of God he discovered through his studies. This transformation prepares his heart in unkown ways for the devastating event that would test Tim's faith to its core.

In a heartwrenching turn, Tim recounts the tragic loss of his son TJ, a beloved young man whose life touched many. As Tim grapples with overwhelming grief and anger, he shares how his newfound understanding of God's character became his anchor. Through tears and raw emotion, Tim reveals how he found strength to support his family, questioned everything he believed, and ultimately held onto his faith. This episode is a testament to the power of community, the endurance of hope, and the unshakeable presence of God in life's darkest moments.

For more info, go to loveshaped.life

Transcript
Tim Hawkins:

fell asleep and I woke up at:

Tim Hawkins:

And coming out of my sleep, I was thinking TJ had gotten a ticket or something.

Tim Hawkins:

But what he said to me, he said, he asked me for my, my license.

Tim Hawkins:

And so I went and got my license and he said, so you TJ's Timothy?

Tim Hawkins:

He said, timothy Hawkins Junior's father said yes.

Tim Hawkins:

And now I'm starting to worry.

Tim Hawkins:

And he told me that.

Tim Hawkins:

My son.

Host:

We want to welcome you to story sessions from your friends at love shaped life.

Host:

This podcast is dedicated to sharing the story of people's lives.

Host:

The Bible is a uniform story, speaking to every human heart that God is love.

Host:

And all of us have a special place in that heart.

Host:

Today, our special guest is Tim Hawkins.

Host:

He's here to share how God has impacted his life and share his story.

Host:

Tim, we want to welcome you.

Tim Hawkins:

I want to thank you for having me.

Tim Hawkins:

It's a pleasure being here.

Host:

It's great to have you with us, Tim.

Host:

As we start off, we also like to ask, just share with us briefly about your background, where you came from, what life was like for you growing up, and what impacted your life the most.

Tim Hawkins:

So I was born in Baltimore, Maryland.

Tim Hawkins:

I said I felt the Maryland accent coming, saying Baltimore, so I.

Host:

That's perfected.

Tim Hawkins:

It's all good.

Tim Hawkins:

So I'm from Baltimore, Maryland, and I was raised in East Baltimore.

Tim Hawkins:

And then after, from the, I was there from the 7th to the 9th grade, and after the 9th grade, we moved to West Baltimore.

Tim Hawkins:

And when we moved to West Baltimore, it was, it was a culture, a culture shift.

Tim Hawkins:

It was a shock in my life.

Host:

Well, I want to stop you there for a moment, if I might.

Host:

You said you went from east side to west side, right?

Host:

So share with us, what was east side like?

Tim Hawkins:

So when we, me and my mom, it was just me and my mom.

Tim Hawkins:

When we lived in East Baltimore, my days were filled with, I had friends of multi different races.

Tim Hawkins:

Everything was calm, I had no worries.

Tim Hawkins:

And we play sports all day.

Tim Hawkins:

And basically until it was dark, I had to come in and I never had any issues with anything.

Host:

So you were having what was called a nice childhood, right, on the east side, right.

Host:

I mean, the thought of being able to stay out til the sun's going down, just playing with your friends is just an exciting thought.

Host:

It's hard to even imagine that, unfortunately, in our society today, usually you have to have a parent with you or something.

Host:

So share with us, what was the west side like then?

Tim Hawkins:

So the west side.

Tim Hawkins:

that I moved there, which was:

Tim Hawkins:

And by open air drug market, I mean drugs were being sold everywhere you could see.

Tim Hawkins:

It was addicts of all types.

Tim Hawkins:

It was violence.

Tim Hawkins:

You would see, you would hear gunshots.

Tim Hawkins:

The police were a heavy presence.

Tim Hawkins:

Helicopters and all kinds of stuff like that.

Tim Hawkins:

That's basically what it was.

Host:

I believe you shared with me that the east side was more of a multicultural setting for you growing up.

Host:

And then the west side was.

Tim Hawkins:

The west side was all black.

Tim Hawkins:

And at that time, in West Baltimore, specifically Emerson Avenue.

Tim Hawkins:

And that's a pretty popular street for, if anyone knows, is familiar with Baltimore, it was all black.

Tim Hawkins:

And for the most part, when I saw someone of a different race come into the neighborhood, it was to buy drugs when they were a cop.

Host:

So that must have been a huge, like you mentioned, a culture shock for you.

Host:

What impact did that have on you as a child, going from, like, that east side environment to this now, this environment in the west?

Tim Hawkins:

So the thing that stands out the most to me, when I came, when I first.

Tim Hawkins:

When we first moved into the house and I saw the neighborhood, I felt like I was alone.

Tim Hawkins:

And so I had a brother, but my brother is ten years between me and my brother.

Tim Hawkins:

But I felt alone.

Tim Hawkins:

I didn't understand.

Tim Hawkins:

And the people that.

Tim Hawkins:

The people my age, that I was around in high school, they looked at me like I was an alien.

Tim Hawkins:

Because at that time, everything was hip hop clothing.

Tim Hawkins:

And so, you know, I'm like, in the 10th grade, and I'm still dressing like I'm playing sports.

Tim Hawkins:

Cause that's the only thing that mattered to me.

Tim Hawkins:

And so now I'm looked at.

Tim Hawkins:

At this alien.

Tim Hawkins:

And so, summing it up, for that whole year, I didn't play with anybody.

Tim Hawkins:

I didn't have any friends in West Baltimore.

Tim Hawkins:

And so what I would do is I would go to school, and when I got out of school, I would jump on the bus and go to the other side of town, and which was the east side, and I played with all of my friends.

Tim Hawkins:

And one of the good memories that I have is that when the bus would approach the east side, all of my friends, people on the bus would look at me because it'd be like, 15 kids, and it'd be like, different kids, different nationalities.

Tim Hawkins:

They're all standing on the bus stop.

Tim Hawkins:

And when I got off the bus, they'd be like, Tim, Tim, that's beautiful.

Tim Hawkins:

It was.

Tim Hawkins:

It was just amazing.

Tim Hawkins:

And from that get.

Tim Hawkins:

From getting off of the bus, stop, I would leave there.

Tim Hawkins:

bus left East Baltimore about:

Tim Hawkins:

And I would, we run back to the bus stop and it got to a point where the bus drivers would recognize the kids there and they would hold the bus for me longer so I could, this was a public bus so I could get on there and the people coming from, because that side of town was O'Donnell Heights bruining highway.

Tim Hawkins:

It was a big shipping plant.

Tim Hawkins:

And so you had people leaving that shift, and the people on that bus would recognize the kids and they would just wave because it was such a normal thing.

Host:

Wow.

Tim Hawkins:

Wow.

Host:

That's so interesting how you have this one city and you got these two separate sides, right?

Host:

Well, east side and west side, there was more sides, but how different they were.

Host:

You shared with me as we spoke earlier that your mom had this encounter with Goddesse as you were growing up, and that even impacted her life and how she dealt with the community and what you got to see.

Host:

Tell us about that.

Tim Hawkins:

Okay, so just putting the time specific, I had an experience with some missionaries.

Tim Hawkins:

They knocked on the door and they asked me if I accepted Christ into my heart.

Tim Hawkins:

And this was, I was in the 8th grade and I said yes.

Tim Hawkins:

And my mom and my godmother, they were in the living room.

Tim Hawkins:

And when I told them, they laughed.

Tim Hawkins:

And, you know, I didn't go to church after that or anything, but now getting to when we were on the west side, my mom ended up accepting Christ.

Tim Hawkins:

And when she accepted Christ, the change that I saw in her was she now became an advocate for an advocate, a safe house for addicts, for cleaning the community up.

Tim Hawkins:

And she instituted a whole bunch of programs that helped change her neighborhood.

Tim Hawkins:

And one was the Midtown Edmondson association.

Tim Hawkins:

And the motto for the Midtown Edmondson association was, it's not where you live, it's how you live.

Tim Hawkins:

And so one of the lessons that me and my brother, to this day, anybody that knows me, if you see me at a restaurant or something, I have paper or something twirling in my hand, and I don't litter because my mom would just go ballistic if I threw paper on the ground.

Tim Hawkins:

So to this day, I don't litter.

Host:

That's a good thing, right?

Host:

That is.

Tim Hawkins:

But for her to instill that in me, in this open air market, it's just amazing.

Host:

Yeah, it is amazing.

Host:

It's beautiful.

Tim Hawkins:

She ended up having a street named after in Baltimore.

Host:

Wow.

Tim Hawkins:

That's how.

Tim Hawkins:

That's to the extent that she had just affected her neighborhood.

Host:

So to this day, there's still a street in Baltimore named after your mom.

Tim Hawkins:

Yeah.

Host:

Wow, that's beautiful.

Host:

Because of the impact that she had.

Tim Hawkins:

Yep.

Host:

For people.

Tim Hawkins:

And that Midtown Edmondson association, there is a.

Tim Hawkins:

There was a player, there was an NFL player that eventually he was on the news because he, in that neighborhood, he was donating money.

Tim Hawkins:

And, like, it was normal in that area at that time where the schools didn't have air conditioning, the schools didn't have a gym.

Tim Hawkins:

And this was her association that he ended up continuing.

Host:

Wow, that's beautiful.

Host:

And praise God for the impact on your mom's life and how she turned around and impacted people in her community and wasn't afraid to seek to help those in need.

Host:

So, Tim, moving forward, again, you shared with me when you turned 17 and graduated from high school, you ended up joining the armed services.

Host:

And share with us a little bit about what led you to that decision, what that was like in there, in that service.

Tim Hawkins:

So what led me to that, to that decision at that time, I still moving from East Baltimore to West Baltimore, I was, that was, that was a crippling, I want to say crippling moment in my life as I understood it as much as somebody that age could.

Tim Hawkins:

You know, I think about it now, and just like, as a child, you know, I didn't understand what struggles my mom was going through.

Tim Hawkins:

And so I was just obstinate, you know, it created a gulf between me and my mom and my mom, even though she was saved, because that's one thing I've noticed in my experience with Christ, is when we accept Christ, we're still who we are.

Tim Hawkins:

It's just that God is like bumper guards to our personality.

Tim Hawkins:

He keeps it in check.

Host:

He's refining us to.

Tim Hawkins:

Yes, and so I'm saying that.

Tim Hawkins:

So my mom was this hardcore person.

Tim Hawkins:

And so she giving you an example.

Tim Hawkins:

I'm getting to what led me to go into the military.

Tim Hawkins:

My mom would be in an open air drug market with big time gangsters and killers.

Tim Hawkins:

And she'd have a phone.

Tim Hawkins:

We didn't have wireless phones at that time.

Tim Hawkins:

She'd have a long extension, the phone cord, and she'd be, I called the cops on this one.

Tim Hawkins:

And she'd stand out there and wait for the cops to come.

Tim Hawkins:

And when they would come, she would say, that's right, I called the cops.

Tim Hawkins:

I'm the one that did it.

Tim Hawkins:

And she had a speaker in her window where she's playing christian music.

Tim Hawkins:

And in the middle of all of this, and people that drug dealers would come by and they would say, all right, we gotta stop.

Tim Hawkins:

Walk past the window.

Tim Hawkins:

It became a.

Tim Hawkins:

Her stoop became a safe place.

Host:

Well, that's beautiful.

Tim Hawkins:

And so, in the midst of all that, my mom, I think looking at it from her perspective, she was like, there's a gulf between us.

Tim Hawkins:

And she basically said, you know, you have to graduate.

Tim Hawkins:

And I made the decision based on I wanted to be on the east side.

Tim Hawkins:

I said, I don't want to ever be in a position where she's telling me what to do again.

Tim Hawkins:

And so this is showing you the logic of a child.

Tim Hawkins:

I said, I want to be in a situation where no one's telling me what to do.

Tim Hawkins:

So what I did was join the military.

Host:

That's funny.

Host:

Now they're going to tell you what to do every moment.

Tim Hawkins:

And so looking at it now, I can say it's not that I didn't want anybody telling me what to do.

Tim Hawkins:

I just didn't want my mom telling me what to do.

Tim Hawkins:

And if I could do it all over again, I wish I would have listened more to her.

Host:

Yeah, I think most of us feel the same way towards our parents.

Host:

So you end up joining the military.

Host:

When you were coming out of the military, you shared with me you felt like you developed this us and them kind of attitude.

Host:

What led to that?

Host:

What was that about?

Tim Hawkins:

So what led to that was there was an experience when I was in the military, and I was in the cafeteria just summarizing it real quick.

Tim Hawkins:

And on the ship, you know, that's where it was called, the mess decks, where we would eat.

Tim Hawkins:

It was one tv, and what people would do is if it was something on tv they wanted to see, they would complete all their work and get there and get to the mess decks and, you know, watch the tv.

Tim Hawkins:

And then, you know, after the show went off, the next person would get their turn.

Tim Hawkins:

And so there was a show that I wanted to.

Tim Hawkins:

That I.

Tim Hawkins:

That me and all of my friends, we wanted to see.

Tim Hawkins:

And we followed what everybody did or what the normal practice was.

Tim Hawkins:

And when that show came on, you know, we had worked hard to and early to get it done, and so we're there, and.

Tim Hawkins:

And someone of a high rank came and said, you guys have to go.

Tim Hawkins:

We were all black.

Tim Hawkins:

And so when he said that, of course we challenged it, and basically nothing was done about it.

Tim Hawkins:

And so that was the first time in my life that I had ever experienced someone had a problem with me because of the color of my skin, and it changed me, and it made me see the world differently.

Host:

So this is where you saw this us and theme mentality and developing that.

Tim Hawkins:

Yeah.

Tim Hawkins:

And from that moment on the ship, the ship was divided because the situation, it really.

Tim Hawkins:

It really got big, and it.

Tim Hawkins:

And.

Tim Hawkins:

And at the time, that ship had a.

Tim Hawkins:

Had a history of us and them.

Tim Hawkins:

It was a lot of things that had happened.

Tim Hawkins:

The FBI had.

Tim Hawkins:

Had come to the ship before I got there because there was a.

Tim Hawkins:

All kinds of tension on that ship.

Host:

Mainly over white, black.

Tim Hawkins:

Yes.

Tim Hawkins:

Yes.

Host:

It's really unfortunate.

Host:

It's sad to see that, but that's what humanity is apart from God, you know?

Host:

So you come out of the military, right?

Host:

And then you shared with me, you ended up becoming part of a religion, and what was that about?

Tim Hawkins:

out of the military, this was:

Tim Hawkins:

I didn't have.

Tim Hawkins:

I didn't have any.

Tim Hawkins:

I wasn't practicing any religion.

Tim Hawkins:

But that part, my personality or my view of the world had formed to the point where, you know, what happened to me in the military, I brought out with me, and that's how I viewed the world.

Host:

Can I stop you there?

Host:

So you say what you brought out with you.

Host:

Were you angry?

Tim Hawkins:

I was.

Tim Hawkins:

I was angry, and I approached things like, there's white.

Tim Hawkins:

There's white people, and there's black people, and that.

Tim Hawkins:

That black people are.

Tim Hawkins:

Or minorities are.

Tim Hawkins:

We don't.

Tim Hawkins:

We're second class citizens.

Tim Hawkins:

I had that mindset, and rightfully so at the time.

Tim Hawkins:

At the time, based on my experience at the time.

Tim Hawkins:

And so the way I viewed the world was that, you know, I have to do.

Tim Hawkins:

Because of that situation, I have to do everything.

Tim Hawkins:

Everything extra, extra.

Tim Hawkins:

I can't ever be less.

Tim Hawkins:

I gotta do it twice as good.

Host:

So this experience was really forming you and shaping you.

Host:

And again, like you mentioned, forming your worldview.

Host:

So you end up becoming part of that, this religion.

Host:

And what was that about?

Tim Hawkins:

What was it like?

Tim Hawkins:

So what that religion was about was, if I could summarize in it, it would be uplifting black people and teaching black people about their history that they haven't known and navigating the world separate from everyone else.

Tim Hawkins:

And later, I learned that the separation.

Tim Hawkins:

And this was like, I came in, you asked me if I was angry.

Tim Hawkins:

I guess I was a lot angry.

Tim Hawkins:

And.

Host:

But even Tim, again, this is, in a sense, it's rightfully so.

Host:

Right?

Host:

I mean, just what you saw in the military, the way you were treated in the military.

Host:

And then all of a sudden, there was an eye opening for you, and again, you talked about your culture shifts from the east side to the west side.

Host:

Now your eyes are being opened, and.

Tim Hawkins:

It'S impacting you, definitely.

Tim Hawkins:

And so basically summarizing that religion's viewpoint was that we are.

Tim Hawkins:

And when I say we, I mean, at that time, they were uplifting the black man so that he could participate in society as an equal.

Tim Hawkins:

Because in that view of that religion, that black people were operating short because everyone else knew who they were and we didn't.

Tim Hawkins:

And so what they were doing is they were re educating them, reeducating black people, and uplifting them, because.

Tim Hawkins:

And what was interesting, I hadn't prepared for what they were gonna.

Tim Hawkins:

But the next thing that I had to do, and they.

Tim Hawkins:

No more drinking, no more premarital sex.

Tim Hawkins:

You know, for that year and a half, I was celibate.

Tim Hawkins:

I ate once a day.

Tim Hawkins:

I had a discipline structure.

Tim Hawkins:

And I remember when I got to the point when I was becoming a full fledged member, it was certain things you had to do.

Tim Hawkins:

And I actually thought that they were going to say no, because I had a son at that time.

Tim Hawkins:

I was 19, and my first child, he was by a white woman.

Tim Hawkins:

And I thought that.

Tim Hawkins:

Oh, I thought they were going to say, oh, you're kicked out.

Tim Hawkins:

You can't do it.

Tim Hawkins:

And that wasn't the case.

Tim Hawkins:

The first thing they asked me was, are you taking care of your son?

Tim Hawkins:

Are you being a dad?

Tim Hawkins:

Do you have any issues?

Tim Hawkins:

Because we're about cleaning you up.

Tim Hawkins:

And I told him, my son was by a white person.

Tim Hawkins:

And they said, well, your son isn't considered white.

Tim Hawkins:

Your son is considered black.

Tim Hawkins:

And so that shocked me.

Tim Hawkins:

And so that was that.

Host:

So there was a lot of positive things that you just shared.

Host:

You know, certain disciplines, very good, positive things.

Host:

If you were to, you know, say, what was the picture of God?

Host:

Because every religion communicates a picture of goddess, right?

Host:

And how we see God impacts not only ourselves, but it impacts how we treat other people.

Host:

So what would.

Host:

How would you sum up that picture of God that you were, that was communicated to you?

Tim Hawkins:

So the picture of God that I saw at that time was that God is vengeful, and that for the things that happened to his people, God would separate his people and literally burn everyone else.

Host:

Well, that's quite the picture of God.

Host:

So if we were to say it was more of an authoritarian picture, and like you mentioned, a vengeful side thrown on there, but how did that impact your life?

Host:

I mean, what was that like for you as you're.

Host:

As you're worshiping this God and you're living your daily life, you have a child now.

Host:

You're raising your child I mean, how was that impacting you?

Tim Hawkins:

So what happened was, and specifically sorry.

Host:

About how you were treating other people.

Tim Hawkins:

Right.

Tim Hawkins:

So, and so that, so getting into that.

Tim Hawkins:

So now my son is in Rhode island, and me and the mom, I would have him for the summer.

Tim Hawkins:

I would have him for the whole summer and I would take care of him and buy what he needed for school when he went back, and then she would have them.

Tim Hawkins:

And then when the summer came, he would go back and forth.

Tim Hawkins:

And so now at this time when I came home, I had friends that I knew from the east side.

Tim Hawkins:

We still were friends.

Tim Hawkins:

And so now everything changed because I moved out of my mom's house and I moved into a house that sold this religion, had a lead figure and he would put out sermons and he was all over the news all the time.

Tim Hawkins:

So now I'm not at home and I still hang with my friends, but now I don't eat pork, I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't do any of those things.

Tim Hawkins:

I got to be home at this time.

Tim Hawkins:

And the way I treated people, you know, and this was the thing about that situation.

Tim Hawkins:

They taught that there was us and them.

Tim Hawkins:

But you don't disrespect like we were the US, but you don't disrespect them.

Tim Hawkins:

You don't treat them any kind of way you were you.

Tim Hawkins:

So it was in their, in their, in their way they were serving them by.

Tim Hawkins:

But we had the, the right religion, you know, but you don't disrespect them.

Tim Hawkins:

You don't treat them mean or anything like that.

Host:

So, Tim, fast forwarding.

Host:

You end up marrying somebody from your childhood.

Host:

Can you share with us a little about what that was like?

Tim Hawkins:

Yes.

Tim Hawkins:

So my first wife I knew since I was, since we were children.

Tim Hawkins:

And as we grew up, we went our separate ways.

Tim Hawkins:

She got married.

Tim Hawkins:

She was married for twelve or 13 years.

Tim Hawkins:

The marriage didn't work out where he ended up getting locked up.

Tim Hawkins:

And she had three children and I now have two.

Tim Hawkins:

And when.

Tim Hawkins:

And so now he's released and we make a decision that I should step back to give their marriage a chance to work.

Tim Hawkins:

And so as time went on, she, my first wife, decided that she, that they should get a divorce.

Tim Hawkins:

And so they went through the process of divorcing.

Tim Hawkins:

And it wasn't, it wasn't a easy process because he didn't want to accept it.

Tim Hawkins:

And I actually, I knew we knew each other before the marriage, so it was a sticky situation.

Tim Hawkins:

And so it ended up working out but it was a lot that happened.

Host:

So you end up getting married.

Host:

She has three children, you have two children.

Host:

And then there was an experience that happened that really impacted your life for Christ.

Host:

What was that?

Tim Hawkins:

So during the process, it was rough.

Tim Hawkins:

It was a lot of struggle between he and I, and, but he eventually got to the point where, where he accepted it because I had stepped back.

Tim Hawkins:

And so now he, it was just struggle.

Tim Hawkins:

And then he would have times where he would not accept it.

Tim Hawkins:

And so we fast forwarding, we end up getting close to the point where we get to the point where we're engaged.

Tim Hawkins:

And so she is going to church.

Tim Hawkins:

And at this time, while I had decided to leave the religion that I was in, I thought of, I always had in my mind at that point that I would relearn, I would return to that type of religion, but just with a different group.

Tim Hawkins:

And so now we're engaged, and she goes to church.

Tim Hawkins:

She goes to a christian church.

Tim Hawkins:

And me and her understanding of who Jesus Christ was were completely different.

Tim Hawkins:

And so I would go to church with her and I would sit and listen.

Tim Hawkins:

But again, my understanding was different.

Tim Hawkins:

And so there was this one day, there was an altar call, and her husband, you know, we had gotten to the point where we, everybody involved could coexist.

Tim Hawkins:

He sang on the choir, and so I'm in the back of the pew and the pastor had an altar call.

Tim Hawkins:

And he said, you know, the doors of the church are open.

Tim Hawkins:

And in my mind, I said to myself, I said with my eyes closed, I said, jesus, if you're real, if you give me a sign.

Tim Hawkins:

And I was saying it in a mocking sense, like, there's no way I'm going up there with these foolish christian beliefs.

Tim Hawkins:

And so I said, if you give me a sign, I'll go up there and get in the water.

Tim Hawkins:

Almost like laughing in my mind.

Tim Hawkins:

And so when my eyes open, her husband, her husband was standing in front of me.

Tim Hawkins:

And when my eyes open, I was like, I knew these christians were like this, we're going to fight in the church.

Tim Hawkins:

And so it wasn't that he said to me, if you walk up, I'll go and get in the water with you.

Tim Hawkins:

And so when I became a Christian, it was him that he walked up with me, got in the water, and he was holding my hand.

Tim Hawkins:

And from that moment, me and his relationship changed.

Tim Hawkins:

And me and my first wife, we got married, and our marriage was like this with his children.

Tim Hawkins:

When it came time to discipline the children, I would call him and say, hey, this is what's going on with your son.

Tim Hawkins:

This is what he did in school.

Tim Hawkins:

And he would say to me, well, that's your household.

Tim Hawkins:

You've run it.

Tim Hawkins:

And he would come and he would sit down and he would talk with his children.

Tim Hawkins:

And it was a relationship that you just don't hear when it comes to exes and spouses.

Tim Hawkins:

And then he had a lot of things going in his life, and he passed.

Tim Hawkins:

And I'm thankful that we all got to coexist in that way.

Tim Hawkins:

But it was at that moment, that was my moment, when I realized there was something, is something different about Christianity.

Tim Hawkins:

I like to say that the previous religion that I was in, some of it was about confrontation, but God confronted me.

Tim Hawkins:

And when he confronted me with that situation, it was undeniable.

Host:

So God was using your, who became your wife, her ex, to lead you to make an impact on you for Christ, to actually lead you to make a final decision for Christ, that's, like, almost unheard of, right?

Host:

The hatred that usually ends up there.

Host:

And he comes and he demonstrates really the heart of God, you know?

Tim Hawkins:

And I always think, like, he actually.

Host:

Got in the water with you when he was baptized.

Tim Hawkins:

Me him and me, him and the pastor.

Host:

And what was that impact?

Host:

I gotta back up.

Host:

What was the impact that you thought about this guy?

Host:

You thought he was standing up to perhaps fight you in the church.

Host:

He invites you to go down the aisle, and you went because you were praying in your mind that if God shows you the sign, and so here's the sign.

Host:

I mean, what.

Host:

What was going through your mind?

Host:

As in that change, right?

Host:

Because it went from thinking the guy standing up to fight you to walking you down the aisle, and not only that, he gets in the water with you and you end up being baptized.

Tim Hawkins:

So for him, what I saw in him, I knew of him.

Tim Hawkins:

I mean, we had kind of had a relationship before, but it was just from afar.

Tim Hawkins:

But he was not the type of person that would.

Tim Hawkins:

He was a tough guy, and he didn't do a lot of yielding.

Tim Hawkins:

And so I was more curious, like, God is doing this to this person.

Tim Hawkins:

And then I started thinking about that church.

Tim Hawkins:

It's a close knit church.

Tim Hawkins:

They had been a part of that church for years.

Tim Hawkins:

And what it took for him as a man and like her children saw their father walk down, like, I had my eyes closed, they saw him walk down and walk up to me.

Tim Hawkins:

And in his mind, I think that he was, because he had a unique relationship with God as well.

Tim Hawkins:

He was a super talented singer, but he had a unique relationship with God.

Tim Hawkins:

And I think he got to the point where it was at that moment that he accepted that me and my wife are divorcing.

Tim Hawkins:

And what was in his mind, I'm assuming, was that if she's going to be with someone, it has to be a Christian.

Tim Hawkins:

And I believe that he was walking down there for God because he assessed his situation and said, this is the best situation for my family, and that is to lean on Christ and make sure this person is accepting of Christ.

Host:

So, but also to add to that, I mean, what type of impact was on your mind that this was the guy that was demonstrating compassion towards you and love towards you, and he was almost pitying you in the sense of, you know, I want to bring Tim along and I'm willing to get in the water with him.

Tim Hawkins:

And it's funny because it's not funny, but two days earlier, me and him had had a conversation, and he was very familiar with life in the street.

Tim Hawkins:

And he said, a mutual friend of ours, he had considered having this person visit me, but he changed in his mind.

Tim Hawkins:

He changed it because he knew me and he knew my mother.

Tim Hawkins:

It was like he didn't want to go down that route.

Host:

Yeah, he made a choice to follow the Lord.

Tim Hawkins:

And so what it did for me was it showed me that it's a different kind of strength.

Tim Hawkins:

And the strength that I saw that the understanding in my theology was, it was strength through isolation.

Tim Hawkins:

And what this showed me was this Jesus, this God, or Jesus, or however you want to say, was strength through relationship.

Host:

Beautiful.

Host:

Beautiful.

Host:

And I liked what you said, that even as time went on, you know, if you were having challenges with the children, you would talk to him and he would, like, give you permission to handle things.

Host:

Right.

Host:

Because they were.

Host:

They were really his children, and you were the stepdad in the picture.

Host:

And the fact that you had this relationship where you were working for the good of the children speaks volumes of what the power and the grace of God can do in human beings lives to take away the strife and perhaps hatred and just put love and compassion for each other.

Host:

So, Tim, time again, we move forward in time, right?

Host:

You end up moving to Florida.

Host:

That's where we met.

Host:

You were practicing Christianity, you and your family.

Host:

And we end up meeting, and we went through a class together, right?

Host:

A Bible class together where we looked at the character of Goddesse and we went from Genesis all the way to revelation.

Host:

It was called an arise curriculum.

Host:

And how did that impact your life?

Host:

I mean, we were on that journey together for almost two years.

Host:

Meeting once a week, you know, so.

Tim Hawkins:

Arise, it changed my life in a number of ways.

Tim Hawkins:

The first was that it showed me.

Tim Hawkins:

It showed me goddess in a way that I had never imagined or never seen.

Tim Hawkins:

And because of that, it changed in my everyday life.

Tim Hawkins:

It changed how I interacted with my children and with everyone.

Tim Hawkins:

And, like, firstly, with.

Tim Hawkins:

With my children.

Tim Hawkins:

Before arise, I was the type of parent that would say, because I said so, I was a disciplinarian, and I focus more on providing structure to my family and protection than relationship.

Tim Hawkins:

And so when I got to.

Tim Hawkins:

When I came into contact with arise, it was like God showed me what I was without him, in a sense.

Tim Hawkins:

And by without him, I mean without the relationship.

Tim Hawkins:

Because up until that point, my understanding was, or my relationship with God was, it's a knowledge type thing.

Tim Hawkins:

And so one of the things I realized that you can have all the knowledge in the world, but if it's not relatable to your everyday life, then you're kind of foolish.

Tim Hawkins:

And so with arise, I went from being the disciplinarian to actually loving my children.

Tim Hawkins:

And they recognized the change.

Tim Hawkins:

And it got to a point where they were like, we don't even know who this person is because I was dealing with them with an increased patience and actually being concerned about, you know, what they thought.

Host:

So it was, as you saw, more of the beauty of who God was that was changing your heart, and then that was impacting the way you were treating your children and other people.

Host:

Again, you know, the way we see God is the way we see ourselves, and it's the way we see others.

Host:

Right?

Host:

So it's so huge, this concept of really seeing God for who he really is, that he is one john four eight says that God is love.

Host:

And unpacking that and seeing what love is, that's what we went through in that arise curriculum, was really unpacking what love was not from a world standpoint of view, right?

Host:

Which changes.

Host:

And, you know, I love you because you love me.

Host:

And, you know, and all the love songs, you know, I'm in love with you, but I'm not in love with you anymore.

Host:

And you know what I'm saying?

Host:

In love with somebody else.

Host:

That.

Host:

That fickle kind of love.

Host:

But that changes.

Host:

But God's love is steadfast.

Host:

He doesn't change.

Host:

He's consistent.

Host:

He's like the hound dog of heaven.

Host:

He pursues after us, doesn't quit.

Host:

That was what we were unpacking.

Host:

I just want to back up for a moment about.

Host:

You said that you saw a different picture of God, one that you hadn't seen before.

Host:

And again, one john four eight says that God is love.

Host:

What type of picture was that?

Host:

What kind of attributes were you seeing in God as we journeyed through that time together?

Tim Hawkins:

So what I saw was that I saw the patience of God.

Tim Hawkins:

And so the previous religion that I read, I would read for reference, for knowledge.

Tim Hawkins:

You read the whole Bible because you're preparing to deal with someone, and you want to be familiar with them on the grounds of what they believe in or understand.

Tim Hawkins:

So now and arise.

Tim Hawkins:

I'm reading it from my own viewpoint and without a preconscribed notion, I'm reading it from my heart.

Tim Hawkins:

And so now I understand that God is suffering as well.

Tim Hawkins:

And I never.

Tim Hawkins:

That concept had never entered my mind.

Tim Hawkins:

And the specific thing that I mean when I say God is suffering is it arise, awaken many questions, but the biggest one was, why does God let all of these things happen?

Tim Hawkins:

And why does God just allow the everyday stuff to go on?

Tim Hawkins:

And so what I saw was, is that God is showing us his character, and he wants us to make a decision based on what we see.

Tim Hawkins:

And how that affected me was instead of trying to forcibly control my children's life, if I.

Tim Hawkins:

If I take that.

Tim Hawkins:

Take that journey with them and let them make the best choice that they could, the same discipline or the same result that I could.

Tim Hawkins:

That.

Tim Hawkins:

That I thought that I could get with discipline.

Tim Hawkins:

I got it.

Tim Hawkins:

You can get the same result through relationship.

Host:

Wow.

Host:

And at this point in your life, your kids were either in middle school, on up through high school, and beyond.

Tim Hawkins:

Correct.

Host:

Again, back to Jesus said, I only do what I see the father doing.

Host:

In John 519, he had this beautiful picture that he understood of what God was like, and that was the picture that he sought to communicate to everyone around him.

Host:

And that's really what, as I listened to you, what was happening in your life as you begin to see this deeper picture of God, right, because he's working on your life, but now you're seeing him in a deeper way.

Host:

And now it's impacting not only for yourself, but it's how you relate to other people, and especially your children.

Host:

And so you had mentioned earlier that your children didn't even really recognized who you were.

Host:

No.

Host:

What was that like?

Host:

What were they saying?

Host:

What were they?

Tim Hawkins:

Well, they were what they would say.

Tim Hawkins:

So.

Tim Hawkins:

So my children, they had a nickname for me.

Tim Hawkins:

The older ones had a nickname for me.

Tim Hawkins:

They would call me Shrek because I was like an ogre.

Tim Hawkins:

You know, it was good times, you know, I don't want everybody to think I'm abusing.

Host:

Yeah, yeah, sure.

Host:

It was just.

Host:

It was just disciplinary.

Host:

Yeah, disciplinary, which is not all bad.

Host:

Right?

Host:

You just learned at the.

Host:

To balance it out.

Tim Hawkins:

Right, exactly.

Tim Hawkins:

And so what they saw, and this is as they, like, the high school age kids, what they saw was, now I'm having conversations with them.

Tim Hawkins:

Like, if I say, you can't, I don't think you should do this, and I'll say, this is why.

Tim Hawkins:

I don't think you should do this, because this is where this leads.

Tim Hawkins:

And if you do this, I'm explaining it to them.

Tim Hawkins:

And sometimes they would agree, and then sometimes they wouldn't.

Tim Hawkins:

But the thing that I found that was really interesting, when Christ changed my heart, I started.

Tim Hawkins:

It was like I was experiencing my children completely different.

Tim Hawkins:

And so now I'm actually looking at them, and they.

Tim Hawkins:

I found out from talking to them that through all of that discipline, the only.

Tim Hawkins:

The biggest thing that they wanted was they wanted to have a relationship with me.

Host:

Oh, that's beautiful.

Host:

You know, there's a little saying, Tim, that says, rules without a relationship equals rebellion.

Host:

And I'm going to repeat that.

Host:

Rules without a relationship equals rebellion.

Host:

Right.

Host:

So it sounds to me like you had a rule based disciplinary action towards your children all the time, and now you are learning to.

Host:

To introduce the relationship because of what you saw in God.

Host:

Because ultimately, God's a relational being.

Host:

And that's the storyline of the Bible, is God desires a relationship with each and every one of us.

Tim Hawkins:

Exactly.

Host:

And that's through Christ.

Host:

We are brought into that relationship.

Tim Hawkins:

It's the whole story.

Host:

It's the whole story.

Host:

Right.

Host:

And that's the beauty of it, even here in this world.

Host:

And that was what was happening to you.

Host:

And now you're sharing that with your children.

Host:

What was that like for you to.

Host:

To shift from being this authoritarian now to entering into this relationship with your children?

Host:

I mean, that must have been just like something you never even imagined possible.

Tim Hawkins:

So you got to see it personally, Pastor Bob, because now I'm thinking about when we were in a rise and when you would have.

Tim Hawkins:

You'd be leading the class out.

Tim Hawkins:

And it's coming back to me now where most of the things that I talked about would be conversations that I had with my children.

Tim Hawkins:

And so it's interesting, too, something else that happened while we.

Tim Hawkins:

I just realized that while we were going through the arise program is that my view on God had changed, and so did my theology, because, you know, now it's a new theology coming into their lives, and they were more accepting of it because they like this version that they were.

Tim Hawkins:

That they were seeing, you know, not saying that they, you know, agreed 100%.

Tim Hawkins:

The thing that mattered, though, was that.

Tim Hawkins:

That they are able to talk to me now, and they always wanted to, but I wasn't able to see it.

Tim Hawkins:

And so now it's.

Tim Hawkins:

I'm in a rise, and I'm actually going home.

Tim Hawkins:

And it was.

Tim Hawkins:

And I know you remember.

Tim Hawkins:

It's like I was just on fire, and it was a good experience.

Host:

Yeah, well, praise God.

Host:

I think of Isaiah, chapter one, verse 18, it says, come.

Host:

God says, come, let us reason together.

Host:

You know, God invites us to interact with him relationally, and that's what you are seeing in this picture of God.

Host:

And then you're translating that into your family, which is absolutely beautiful, and they're seeing in you.

Host:

And now it's opening them up to want to learn more about goddess, right?

Tim Hawkins:

Yep.

Host:

So, again, how we see God is it's how we see ourselves, and it's how we're going to treat other people.

Host:

Tim, fast forwarding a little bit.

Host:

It didn't work out with your first wife.

Host:

You go through a divorce.

Host:

After that divorce was about a year out.

Host:

You were settling things with your children.

Host:

You had brought two children into the marriage.

Host:

She had brought three children into marriage, and then you had two children together, right?

Host:

Correct.

Host:

And what were the names of the two children you had together?

Tim Hawkins:

So the two children were TJ and Caleb.

Host:

Okay.

Tim Hawkins:

And so we, like you said, we had divorced.

Tim Hawkins:

It was a year out.

Tim Hawkins:

And the divorce.

Host:

Let me stop you there.

Host:

How old was TJ and Caleb at this time?

Host:

At that divorce time?

Tim Hawkins:

At the time of the divorce, TJ was in the.

Tim Hawkins:

About to go to high school.

Tim Hawkins:

And so they were middle.

Tim Hawkins:

They were in middle, between middle school and high school.

Tim Hawkins:

And after the divorce, a year out, the divorce actually went smoothly.

Tim Hawkins:

And so my first wife ended up staying in Baltimore.

Tim Hawkins:

And at first, I had TJ and Caleb with me because the rest of the children are grown, and they went their, you know, separate ways.

Tim Hawkins:

And so it's me and TJ and Caleb, and they are in high school.

Tim Hawkins:

And so this is.

Tim Hawkins:

And this is as the divorce is settled.

Tim Hawkins:

And so later, later, Caleb decides that he wants to go with his mom.

Tim Hawkins:

And so we made that decision.

Tim Hawkins:

He went to stay with his mom.

Tim Hawkins:

And so me and TJ, we moved from the apartment complex that we're at, and we move into another place.

Tim Hawkins:

And so now it's just me and TJ.

Tim Hawkins:

And so this is during that year of the divorce, so it's just me and TJdeh.

Tim Hawkins:

And so.

Host:

And things were looking up for you financially.

Tim Hawkins:

Yeah.

Host:

You got a better job.

Tim Hawkins:

Exactly.

Host:

Things were working out.

Host:

So share with us a little bit about TJ.

Host:

What was he like?

Host:

I can share with you on my end, too.

Host:

I'll go first.

Host:

So TJ was the type of kid that, when he walked into the room, he lit it up.

Host:

Right?

Host:

Everybody loved TJ.

Host:

Everybody loved TJ.

Host:

I mean, he just had a personality and a half.

Host:

Right.

Host:

You know, I didn't know anybody that didn't like TJ.

Host:

He was just kind, compassionate, sensitive.

Host:

So tell us a little bit about TJ.

Tim Hawkins:

So TJ was the kind of child that would.

Tim Hawkins:

He noticed everything, and he was neutral in every situation.

Tim Hawkins:

Like, when, if there was an argument between the children, TJ was Switzerland.

Tim Hawkins:

And I'm borrowing that statement from Caleb.

Tim Hawkins:

If it didn't matter who it was.

Tim Hawkins:

TJ got was always the bridge between everyone.

Host:

And so he was a peacemaker.

Tim Hawkins:

Yes, he definitely.

Tim Hawkins:

He definitely was.

Tim Hawkins:

And so after, you know, Caleb decided to go to.

Tim Hawkins:

And it was hard breaking those two up, because TJ and Caleb were attached to the hip.

Tim Hawkins:

They had their own language.

Tim Hawkins:

And the reason that Caleb wanted to go to spend time with his mom is because Caleb was just with children.

Tim Hawkins:

You have different children, you love them all the same, but it's just some that you more easily relate to.

Tim Hawkins:

And so Caleb wanted to go to live in Baltimore as well, to be with his mom.

Tim Hawkins:

And so I made the decision that I don't want him here if he's struggling, because it's hard enough for a teenager, and if it's a situation that he's more comfortable in, then that's fine.

Tim Hawkins:

And so, getting back to the way TJ Washington, even during the divorce, it was never a thing where it was, I like this one more.

Tim Hawkins:

He treated everybody the same.

Tim Hawkins:

And so now it's me and TJ.

Tim Hawkins:

And my job had changed where I was on the road more.

Tim Hawkins:

And so here's an example of how TJ was.

Tim Hawkins:

And so I would.

Host:

It's okay.

Host:

Take your time.

Host:

While you're composing yourself, I'm gonna share with you my version of TJ.

Host:

The type of child or person.

Host:

When he walked into a room, he kind of lit it up.

Host:

Warm, friendly.

Host:

Like you said, he was sensitive.

Host:

He.

Host:

The kids all loved him.

Host:

Yeah, my kids loved him.

Host:

Everybody knew TJ.

Host:

Right.

Tim Hawkins:

That's definitely him.

Tim Hawkins:

And so, like I was trying to say, my job required me to be on the road a lot.

Tim Hawkins:

And so I would come home, and I had this habit of, I would lay sideways across my bed.

Tim Hawkins:

You know, like, the bed would go this way, and I would lay sideways.

Tim Hawkins:

I don't know why I did that, but I would just.

Tim Hawkins:

I would say in my mind, I'm gonna lay down for a little while, and then I'll get up and shower.

Tim Hawkins:

Of course, it would end up longer, and I would wake up, and I'd have a blanket over me, and my shoes would be off.

Tim Hawkins:

And because TJ would come by, and he'd see me laying, and he'd see me laying there, and he'd just put a blanket on me, and he just was very, very loving.

Tim Hawkins:

And we had a closeness because it was just us.

Tim Hawkins:

And at that time, the thing that I most worried about with all of the children is divorce is hard on families.

Tim Hawkins:

And it was a, you know, at that moment, at that time, it was like coming out of that divorce, you know, part of the whole thing about that, about that year, as I call it.

Tim Hawkins:

And the reason why I say year is because I gave myself a year before I started, before I dated anyone else, before it had.

Tim Hawkins:

I wanted.

Tim Hawkins:

I wanted it to settle.

Tim Hawkins:

Is this really going to happen?

Tim Hawkins:

My life is going to move on.

Tim Hawkins:

And so for that year, I just focused on my job and.

Tim Hawkins:

And just being a dad the best way I could and supporting the kids.

Tim Hawkins:

And I had gotten to a point where, okay, this is working.

Tim Hawkins:

I got a better job.

Tim Hawkins:

TJ is situated.

Tim Hawkins:

You know, he's going to Daytona, in the Daytona state during the day, and he's working at night.

Tim Hawkins:

And so he has his own vehicle.

Tim Hawkins:

Everything is.

Tim Hawkins:

Has a nice girlfriend.

Tim Hawkins:

Everything's going good.

Tim Hawkins:

And it got to a point where I felt like I was coasting.

Host:

Mm hmm.

Host:

So I remember you were sharing with me.

Host:

You know, there was one morning, I believe you were all sharing, like, a group, maybe a video chat, where you would share about how things were going for you that day.

Host:

And TJ shared something that morning to give everybody a word from TJ.

Host:

What did he share that morning?

Tim Hawkins:

I don't, I don't.

Tim Hawkins:

I don't specifically at this moment remember what he shared, but we had, it was called the check in, and her and my first wife's oldest son, because everybody was separated, he came up with the idea that we just check in on each other, and we'd say to each other, to the group, these are what my goals are.

Tim Hawkins:

This is what my plans are.

Tim Hawkins:

This is what I've done today to reach those goals.

Tim Hawkins:

And it was a group where we would come together and we'd check in with each other to see how we're doing.

Tim Hawkins:

And it got to a point where everybody's lives had gotten too busy.

Tim Hawkins:

And TJ, in one of the videos, he said, you guys are getting kind of slack on the check ins.

Tim Hawkins:

And so that's what I remember.

Host:

Okay.

Host:

Now, I remember some of the specifics for maybe to help you, but I believe that TJ said when he was saying good morning that day and checking in, that he had the day off and that he had.

Host:

Was going to enjoy the day, right?

Tim Hawkins:

Yep.

Host:

Something along those lines.

Host:

Wasn't that what he was saying?

Tim Hawkins:

Yes.

Tim Hawkins:

So TJ was working at a local rest, local restaurant.

Tim Hawkins:

And TJ, like I said, he was going to school, going to Daytona, and he was.

Tim Hawkins:

He was working at the restaurant.

Tim Hawkins:

And I.

Tim Hawkins:

Spring break was approaching.

Tim Hawkins:

And, uh, in this day's check in, because it was a daily check in, on this day's check in, TJ's, he said, my goal is to relax because it's spring break.

Tim Hawkins:

And he said that I worked a lot of overtime.

Tim Hawkins:

He had, like, 60 hours.

Tim Hawkins:

And he said, this is the biggest check that I'm.

Tim Hawkins:

Then this was his first.

Tim Hawkins:

The first job.

Tim Hawkins:

And he.

Tim Hawkins:

And he was proud that this was going to be my biggest check.

Tim Hawkins:

I actually have overtime on it, because when you're that age, you know, you don't get a lot of hours.

Tim Hawkins:

And.

Tim Hawkins:

And the restaurant that he worked in, they were.

Tim Hawkins:

They would give TJ try to give TJ excess hours, but legally they couldn't.

Tim Hawkins:

And TJ was frustrated that he wasn't getting enough hours.

Tim Hawkins:

And so he finally got it.

Tim Hawkins:

He was waiting for the biggest check in his life, and it had overtime, and he's.

Tim Hawkins:

And his.

Tim Hawkins:

And he said, today, my goal is to relax, because it was spring break, and he had been.

Tim Hawkins:

His schedule was he would go to school, I think, from eight to, like, maybe one or two.

Tim Hawkins:

He'd come home, and in one of the videos, he.

Tim Hawkins:

He showed us what he was eating.

Tim Hawkins:

Now it's coming back to my memory.

Tim Hawkins:

He showed us what he was eating.

Tim Hawkins:

He would prep his meals.

Tim Hawkins:

He'd have these healthy dishes that he put in plastic.

Tim Hawkins:

And in the video, he had ordered some books because me and him and the young lady he was seeing at the time, we would talk about the Bible, and I would explain arise to him.

Tim Hawkins:

And TJ was, like, me, just super curious.

Tim Hawkins:

And so TJ had ordered all of these books.

Tim Hawkins:

He had ordered a Quran.

Tim Hawkins:

He had ordered a Bible.

Tim Hawkins:

He had ordered the speech writers the most influential.

Tim Hawkins:

The most influential speakers of the 20th century.

Tim Hawkins:

It was a book of quotes from these guys.

Tim Hawkins:

And TJ was reading these books, and so he.

Tim Hawkins:

Because he wanted his own answers for everything.

Tim Hawkins:

This was before spring break.

Host:

Yeah, that sounds like TJ.

Host:

So then Covid was hitting, right?

Host:

Covid was hitting, and things had changed.

Host:

Life had changed for pretty much everybody, right?

Host:

And so then there was a knock at your door one evening.

Host:

Share with us about that.

Host:

It's okay.

Host:

It's all right, Tim.

Host:

It's all right.

Host:

You're with friends.

Tim Hawkins:

So that.

Tim Hawkins:

, so that day was Thursday at:

Tim Hawkins:

I had.

Host:

Was this.

Host:

Excuse me.

Host:

Was this the same morning that he left the video about his spring break until.

Host:

Okay, it was a different morning, so.

Tim Hawkins:

It was:

Tim Hawkins:

It.

Tim Hawkins:

It was Thursday.

Tim Hawkins:

And at this time, TJ had a girlfriend, and they were very close.

Tim Hawkins:

And TJ would sometimes stay over her house when he got from the job, because he'd go over there and unwind.

Tim Hawkins:

He'd come home late, and I had this thing.

Tim Hawkins:

I would always say, let me know where you are.

Tim Hawkins:

I text him.

Tim Hawkins:

And the few arguments, we never had arguments, but I just say, don't have me ask him where you are.

Tim Hawkins:

And so.

Tim Hawkins:

And TJ, he was a fast driver or two, and he would get tickets.

Tim Hawkins:

fell asleep, and I woke up at:

Tim Hawkins:

And coming out of my sleep, I was thinking TJ had gotten a ticket or something.

Tim Hawkins:

But what he said to me, he said.

Tim Hawkins:

He asked me for my license.

Tim Hawkins:

And so I went and got my license, and he said, so your TJ's Timothy?

Tim Hawkins:

He said, timothy Hawkins junior's father?

Tim Hawkins:

I said, yes.

Tim Hawkins:

And now I'm starting to worry.

Tim Hawkins:

And he told me that my son was passed.

Tim Hawkins:

And.

Tim Hawkins:

And when.

Tim Hawkins:

And when he said that, it was like everything started spinning.

Tim Hawkins:

And I asked him, I said.

Tim Hawkins:

I said, what happened?

Tim Hawkins:

And he said to me that he killed himself.

Tim Hawkins:

Suicide.

Tim Hawkins:

And when he said that, from what I can remember, I dropped two my knees and I couldn't get up.

Tim Hawkins:

And at that moment, it was like I was trying to.

Tim Hawkins:

Except what this.

Tim Hawkins:

What this man was saying.

Tim Hawkins:

At the same time, I was trying.

Tim Hawkins:

I was.

Tim Hawkins:

I wanted to get to my son.

Tim Hawkins:

And it was like I would try to get up, and I was trying to split my body or something, trying to go this way and go that way.

Tim Hawkins:

And then I.

Tim Hawkins:

It was like.

Tim Hawkins:

I felt like I was the only person in the world.

Tim Hawkins:

And everything just was dark.

Tim Hawkins:

And I don't even remember what the officer looked like.

Tim Hawkins:

I just, I remember trying to stand up and I couldn't stand up.

Tim Hawkins:

And I remember him saying, I'm not leaving until you call someone.

Tim Hawkins:

And so I call you.

Tim Hawkins:

And now I'm thinking, when that officer said that, I started thinking about my family and they're all, they're all abroad.

Tim Hawkins:

And so now I have to call, I have to call them and I have, and I have to tell them that TJ is going.

Tim Hawkins:

And so I call my.

Tim Hawkins:

Now I'm starting to think about everybody and how they're going to deal with this.

Tim Hawkins:

And so I had to call my best friend because I knew that my first wife wasn't stable at that point, and so he had to go and tell her, and I had to listen to her break down, and Caleb was with her, and they had been, they all had been trying to reach TJ the entire day.

Tim Hawkins:

I called my brother and I had to call my coworker, and when I called my coworker, he lived in Lake Mary, and he came that night.

Tim Hawkins:

und out that TJ had passed at:

Tim Hawkins:

And so that sent me into, at that moment, I felt like I failed.

Tim Hawkins:

And I thought of all the things that I didn't do and I felt like a part of me had just died.

Tim Hawkins:

I wasn't, it was a split second.

Tim Hawkins:

I can't say split second, but in my mind I had said I was angry, I was depressed, I didn't want to talk to God because I didn't want to.

Tim Hawkins:

The thoughts that I was having, I didn't want to say them to him.

Host:

Tim, first off, we just wanted to say, I mean, it's obviously the worst nightmare for any parent to go through to lose a child.

Host:

And I can't put myself in your shoes, and I know a lot of people can't, but there's a lot of people that are listening to this podcast today that have gone through similar things, you know, and very difficult things.

Host:

I remember being there that night with you and we're just lost for words.

Host:

I think everybody's lost for words, just trying to comfort you and seek God for comfort.

Host:

And, you know, God was giving you the grace moment by moment to cope and to deal with just one of the worst nightmares that could come upon anybody.

Host:

So you were mentioning how you felt like you couldn't talk to God at that moment, obviously, or not just at that moment, during that time.

Host:

It's just hard to put it all into perspective, you know, to put the pieces together.

Host:

So, as we moved into that night, I was amazed through this process, as I journeyed with you, how God had given you the grace to deal with it all, because you had a lot to deal with, not only, and your own heart was not just broken, but shattered.

Host:

God gave you grace to move forward.

Host:

You know, then you had to explain to the children, and, you know, they had to process it themselves.

Tim Hawkins:

Yeah.

Tim Hawkins:

So, with that, I eventually.

Tim Hawkins:

I eventually got to a point where once everybody knew, and the phone, I guess, when people got there and I started thinking about my family, that's when I.

Tim Hawkins:

When I.

Tim Hawkins:

When I started thinking about my family, that's when I.

Tim Hawkins:

I said to God, I can't.

Tim Hawkins:

I said to myself, and I was directing it towards God, that I can't do this, and I don't know how, and I don't know what to do.

Tim Hawkins:

And as I was thinking about my children and my family, what came to me was just to love them.

Tim Hawkins:

And what that meant was, I can't look at.

Tim Hawkins:

I can't expect them to handle this the way that I would.

Tim Hawkins:

It meant that I had to hold them together and prepare them for life without TJ.

Tim Hawkins:

And so it was during the.

Tim Hawkins:

That process that.

Tim Hawkins:

And when I say process, as I was talking to them, the only thing I had to draw on now was my relationship with God and how I perceived it.

Tim Hawkins:

And so the way I perceived it was that I had a whole bunch of questions, whole bunch of anger.

Tim Hawkins:

And I said, I have to get my family started in accepting this.

Tim Hawkins:

And at the same time, I have to find out what happened with my son.

Tim Hawkins:

And so in my mind, I have to support my family and keep them together, because, as you can imagine, it was just a mess.

Tim Hawkins:

And what I learned was that once I was able to gather myself, I learned that I kept in mind that God suffers with us and that with every death, that's not a part of God's plan.

Tim Hawkins:

And it's a lot, too.

Tim Hawkins:

It's a lot.

Host:

Well, sure.

Host:

And I went through, again, going through that journey with you, the whole, you know, being with you that night, and then the process of the funeral and seeing all of TJ's friends came in, and the church was beyond packed with so many young people because he was so loved and so cared for.

Host:

But through it all, I saw in you that God was sustaining you again.

Host:

I don't believe it was just a broken heart.

Host:

I think it's a shattered heart.

Host:

So I saw your brokenness.

Host:

I saw your heart being shattered, but yet still in your eyes.

Host:

I saw that there was this hope and you hadn't let go of God.

Host:

Yes, you had that anger.

Host:

There was a lot to process, even with the police department, the investigation and what happened, it was just a lot.

Host:

But God was still there, present with you.

Host:

And, you know, it's interesting, you mentioned about how what was coming to your mind was that God suffers with us because it was never God's intention for us to experience the heartache and pain.

Host:

When you look at the story of the Bible, it was never God's intention for us to experience the heartache and pain that we do in this world.

Host:

But he has promised strength and grace for us, and he suffers with us.

Host:

I mean, that's a huge picture of God because his goal is to get us out of this world.

Host:

When Jesus comes and creates all things new.

Host:

But in the midst of living in this world, there's all kinds of horrible tragedies.

Host:

And sometimes they hit home, like this one with you again, parents worst nightmare had come upon you just when things were looking up for you, and here you were.

Host:

But God was giving you grace.

Host:

So, Tim, share with us.

Host:

How did you get through it?

Host:

I mean, you talked about anger.

Host:

You talked about these.

Host:

This thing.

Host:

How did you get through it?

Tim Hawkins:

What was it that so, what it was that got me through it is so for me.

Tim Hawkins:

I can't say for everyone.

Tim Hawkins:

But everything I held dear, I questioned, starting with myself.

Tim Hawkins:

I questioned my belief, my belief system.

Tim Hawkins:

I was questioning the police and how they dealt with the situation.

Tim Hawkins:

Everything around me was just in doubt.

Tim Hawkins:

So what I said was, where is God in this?

Host:

That's a fair question, right?

Host:

And a lot of people ask that question.

Tim Hawkins:

Yeah.

Tim Hawkins:

And so when I said, where is God?

Tim Hawkins:

You know, as I was saying it, I really didn't have a lot of time to, at that moment to process everything because the phone was ringing, everybody had questions.

Tim Hawkins:

And so it was sort of a thing of where I actually have to.

Tim Hawkins:

It wasn't like days or I can't remember the time, but it was like, I have to put God on hold, I thought.

Tim Hawkins:

Put God on hold for a second, and I got to get my family together because no matter what, I'm still a dad.

Tim Hawkins:

And I have to deal with.

Tim Hawkins:

I felt like I had to deal with each one of my children and their distinctive personalities.

Tim Hawkins:

Angry.

Tim Hawkins:

Angry.

Tim Hawkins:

Lashing out, broken.

Tim Hawkins:

And I just had to keep us together to get us to the point where we could start to figure this out and doing.

Tim Hawkins:

And it was during that process, when I was being asked questions, that I saw God.

Tim Hawkins:

And what I saw was just summoning it.

Tim Hawkins:

Summoning.

Tim Hawkins:

Summing it up that God doesn't.

Tim Hawkins:

Death is not a part of his plan.

Tim Hawkins:

And like I was saying earlier, he doesn't force us to do things.

Tim Hawkins:

But in every tragedy, God is sad.

Tim Hawkins:

And something that jogged my memory, it was one of my friends that was struggling with his relationship with Christ.

Tim Hawkins:

And he started asking me about questions.

Tim Hawkins:

He was asking me.

Tim Hawkins:

It wasn't at this moment he was doing the process.

Tim Hawkins:

He asked me, he said, so he would ask me this question about Christ.

Tim Hawkins:

He would ask me this question.

Tim Hawkins:

And in my mind, I'm thinking, why is this guy asking me these questions?

Tim Hawkins:

And he said, the reason why I'm asking is because I don't know how you're able to deal with this like you are.

Tim Hawkins:

And I'm relooking and rethinking my relationship with God.

Host:

Wow, that's beautiful.

Tim Hawkins:

And so he gave me a book, and it was a small book, and it was about a man.

Tim Hawkins:

And my friend wrote this long passage in the book, and it was actually this book that, this statement from this book that got me through it.

Tim Hawkins:

And what it said was, this man, he had a story similar to mine, and he ended up separating from God.

Tim Hawkins:

But the man asked, he said, God, where were you when my son died?

Tim Hawkins:

And in the book, he said he realized that.

Tim Hawkins:

He said that he heard God's voice saying, I was the same place that I was when my son died.

Tim Hawkins:

And so when I thought about that, as I started rationalizing that and going through it, it got me.

Tim Hawkins:

It helped me think that or understand that God has never missed a funeral from anybody that's died.

Tim Hawkins:

And we were talking earlier, and I said this, that we're able to go to sleep.

Tim Hawkins:

And sometimes some people have tortured dreams or nightmares, but in essence, we get a release where God doesn't sleep, so he never gets a break from the people dying and from all of the tragedy in life that goes on.

Tim Hawkins:

And so as I now I'm realizing that just the fact that I'm starting to rationalize these things, now I'm able to talk with or deal with my children individually and deal with them in their relationship that they had with TJ.

Tim Hawkins:

And so it started turning into, we're coming together, the family's coming together, and we are now advancing in this tragedy together.

Host:

Tim, you had mentioned when the police officer came to the door that tragic evening, that he mentioned that TJ had taken his own life.

Host:

After the funeral was all over, I was with you.

Host:

We went down to the police department and met with a detective, and he shared with us what they perceived as their evidence.

Host:

And it seemed pretty inconclusive to us.

Host:

We left there really not sure if that's really what happened, that TJ had taken his own life.

Host:

How do you feel in your heart, and how does your family feel about that?

Tim Hawkins:

In our hearts, we know.

Tim Hawkins:

We are very convinced that TJ did not commit suicide because of the way the police handled it.

Tim Hawkins:

And the way the police handled it.

Tim Hawkins:

There was a whole lot of evidence that that wasn't presented, that didn't come until after.

Tim Hawkins:

And the fact that TJ.

Tim Hawkins:

Some of TJ's belongings were missing, and where he was, it was a lot of individuals that were involved, and there were differing stories, and from people that he worked with, it was like the police department was overwhelmed by the case.

Host:

You know, as I listened to your story, Tim, again, going back to our journey through the arise curriculum and looking at the picture of God and how it changed your life and gave you a different perspective, and how you saw God and their suffering with us, how you saw God as a relational being.

Host:

We know it was not God's intention for this to happen to TJ, but it was.

Host:

He was preparing you for this moment to, in the midst of your tragedy, distill that he was using you.

Host:

Even with your friend.

Host:

Seeing God working in your life through it all, asking you questions, and then you being able to work with your children individually through the whole process, it's really a miracle story of God sustaining you and the worst hardship that had come to your life.

Tim Hawkins:

So you have to hold on to God, the whole story.

Tim Hawkins:

And it's like in our lives, if someone were to just talk about or focus on one part of your life, it's going to be an incomplete story, and you're going to be disoriented.

Tim Hawkins:

And so with God, when you hold on to the whole story, and the whole story is from start to finish, yes, life is full of tragedy.

Tim Hawkins:

It's going to happen.

Tim Hawkins:

It's going to hurt, it still hurts.

Tim Hawkins:

But you have to hold on to the end as well.

Tim Hawkins:

And every story has two parts, a beginning and an ending.

Tim Hawkins:

And so usually the most disappointment comes when you stop.

Tim Hawkins:

And when you stop, that's when everything has a chance to settle on you.

Tim Hawkins:

If you keep going through the journey, and for me, going through, as I was going through that, dealing with everybody.

Tim Hawkins:

And I want to point out, or just comes into my memory that even the church changed because I saw my church like I had never seen them.

Tim Hawkins:

And it was so many people from the church that reached out and supported me.

Tim Hawkins:

And it's not many people that can say that, you know, we all have differences and disagreements in church, but in that moment, I felt like.

Host:

You know, the value of community.

Tim Hawkins:

Yep.

Tim Hawkins:

I felt like the entire church was going through this with me, and it was.

Tim Hawkins:

I saw the church differently and just going through that, holding on to that promise that I'm never going to understand everything that happened.

Tim Hawkins:

But later on, I would say I have to hold God accountable for this check.

Tim Hawkins:

And what I mean, and what I mean by that, that's a personal thing that I have, is that God said that he would never leave you, that he would never forsake you, and that all things work out.

Tim Hawkins:

And so that's.

Tim Hawkins:

And sometimes when people hear that, it's actually a stone because you just say that.

Tim Hawkins:

But for me, as I'm experiencing.

Tim Hawkins:

As I'm experiencing this, I'm hearing and seeing how TJ affected everybody, everybody's life in the short time that.

Tim Hawkins:

That he was here.

Tim Hawkins:

But I'm also seeing that the accountable part that I'm talking about with God is that I will see him.

Tim Hawkins:

I will see him again, and that it's going to be more tragedy.

Tim Hawkins:

And our goal or our function in life is to hold on to God.

Tim Hawkins:

That's why he says hold on to me, because he is aware of the things that we're going to come into context.

Host:

That's beautiful.

Host:

Absolutely beautiful.

Host:

I love what you shared about the story.

Host:

Right.

Host:

You look at the story of the Bible, and when you look at the Bible, you get to see what reality is.

Host:

We have expectations and perceptions of what reality is or what we expect of God that aren't even real.

Host:

Right.

Host:

So that's why when bad things happen to us, oftentimes we'll say, well, why is this happening to me?

Host:

I'm doing this for God.

Host:

I'm doing that for God.

Host:

But when you open the story, you'll see that bad things happen to good people.

Host:

Right, exactly.

Host:

And in this sin cursed world, bad things happen to good people.

Host:

But God is in the midst of that, just like with you and in your story, God is in the midst of the heartache and pain and suffering of humanity, seeking to give us strength to lift us up, because there's that end of the story, like you mentioned, which is the second coming of Christ, where he's promised to make all things new and all those that are hid in Christ will rise again.

Host:

Right?

Host:

So TJ will rise again.

Tim Hawkins:

Definitely.

Host:

TJ will rise again.

Host:

Tim, we thank you so much for sharing this story.

Host:

I know this is not easy on you, but the world, when you look around, there's many people who have, are experiencing this pain and aren't sure how to deal with it.

Host:

And that there's many people who will maybe eventually go through a similar situation.

Host:

I believe your story is going to give them courage and hope and strength.

Host:

If you were to just speak to an audience of people who are going through perhaps what you went through and it was freshen and you've been there, what would you say to him?

Tim Hawkins:

What I would say is, take everything step by step.

Tim Hawkins:

Develop your relationship with God.

Tim Hawkins:

Get yourself to the point where you can step back and look at the whole picture and don't dwell on the calamity.

Tim Hawkins:

Because no matter what, you're going to have to move forward.

Tim Hawkins:

And I would say step back, make a conscious decision of how am I going to proceed.

Tim Hawkins:

Because at the end of the day, it's not just going to be you.

Tim Hawkins:

It's going to be everybody that's around you and they're going to look at and they're going to react to how you respond.

Tim Hawkins:

And the most important thing I would say is, is love and forgive yourself and do the same with everybody that you come into contact with.

Host:

Well said, Tim.

Host:

Thank you so much again for joining us on this podcast and sharing your story.

Tim Hawkins:

Thank you for having me.

Host:

Yeah, again, I mentioned we know it was a difficult road for you, but people are going to be blessed and just thank you for coming in and sharing your.

Host:

We want to thank you for tuning in today to our love Shave Life podcast.

Host:

If you would like to hear more of our podcasts or perhaps read our blogs or check out our other resources, you can go to loveshape life.

Host:

That's loveshape life.

Host:

If you want to shoot us an email.

Host:

If you have questions for Tim, you can contact us at hellooveshape Life.

Host:

That's hellooveshape life.

Host:

Until next time, lean in to a love shaped life.

Podcast Team Member:

Thank you so much for tuning into the Love Shaped Life podcast.

Podcast Team Member:

We hope you find this podcast not only inspirational, but life changing.

Podcast Team Member:

Here at love shaped life, we're working to create a community, an online community, in fact, where individuals like you can connect with each other and lean into God's love together.

Host:

We also provide spiritual wellness coaching where we walk alongside people to help them to see the beauty of God's character.

Host:

Discover if there's anything that might be hindering them from finding the healing power that's in that love.

Podcast Team Member:

And as you might have expected, love shaped life is crowdfunded.

Podcast Team Member:

Individuals like you give generously to make this dream a reality.

Podcast Team Member:

If you'd like to join that crowd, you can give today at loveshaped life.

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About the Podcast

Story Sessions with Loveshaped Life
At Loveshaped Life, we believe sharing our stories may be one of the most powerful forms of inspiration. Each episode of our Story Sessions podcast will feature a moving, upclose & personal telling of one's own story of experiencing the transformative power of God's love. Tell us your story or find more inspiration at loveshaped.life.

About your host

Profile picture for Nathan Stearman

Nathan Stearman

A parish pastor for 20-years, Nathan loves Jesus, family and thinking deeply about life. In addition to being a spiritual wellness coach and cofounder of Loveshaped Life, he's also a part-time chaplain in health care.